Dr. Price and Dr. Smith begin the conversation with the definition of shamanism, and continue with Carlos Castaneda’s influence of shamanism in North America – noting the controversy surrounding the word of Castaneda, the mystical in the literary, Toltec principals and lineage, the complexities and ultimate mystery of reality and the universe, the layers of the “knowable” and the “unknowable,” brujerio/a: sorcery from the Oaxacan and Mazatec traditions, the Spanish and Catholic influence in Mexico, psychedelics, “consciousness creating technologies,” direct perception, “seeing,” the process of socialization and the ways in which these models obstruct our direct perception of the unseen world, we discuss Michael’s history, his calling, and his initiation, precognitive visions, Jung’s Red Book as an example of a shamanic initiation, Jung’s daemon, treatment of psychotic possession, differentiating Jungian and shamanic process, prognosis of illness, and treatment, and more.