In this episode, Jim and I discuss how elements of his personal history positioned his interest in depth psychology specifically and learning in general. Jim defines depth psychology and discusses how a relationship to one’s inner world orients one’s self to meaning and purpose. We explore how the relationship to a vocation or calling will either enhance or limit each of our life experience. He frames the price of being separated from one’s inner voice as “the problem of our time.” We discuss how the poet’s life and interest investigate the cosmos and psyche, as Jim believes that the poet is depth psychology. We investigate the difference between learning and thinking and evaluate how making a living and making money have contributed to the unbalancing of our culture. We explore the imagination and reason as working together to image possibilities. We frame addiction as a consequence of ego consciousness clinging to a management system believed to palliate the suffering of living. He eloquently identifies the core struggle shared amongst men and the related consequences of this struggle. We converse about the nature of transcendence and how attending to our symptoms, dreams, and fantasies place us into relationship with mysteries beyond our conscious sense of “I.”