The Santo Daime, a syncretistic tradition including parts of indigenous South American religion, African folk traditions, and Catholicism, is a new religion as of the early 20th century. All of this to say that in this conversation, we are invited into a deep dive to explore the nature and formation of religion in general as we look at the specifics of a sacred ayahuasca-based new religious tradition. We begin with Dr. Barnard’s first-person experience within The Santo Daime, which is a real treat given that, as a professor of religious studies, he is quite experienced evaluating, comparing, & exploring religion and religious traditions from the third person, though in Liquid Light we benefit from his history as a comparativist, who analyzes his own tradition. In modern studies we often learn of first-person experiences with ayahuasca – the images, the process, the purging, though we do not often get a glimpse into the religion itself. Today’s conversation explores these dimensions of ayahuasca and more, including the formation of the religion, the institution, the preparation of the sacramental substance, philosophical interpretations, metaphysics, an exploration of religious studies and comparativism, divinity with The Santo Daime, Christ Consciousness, panpsychism, William James, & mystical experiences - we end by briefly questioning the ontological nature of the Other, though read the book and take a deep dive into mediumship and encountering the More.